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Jesse Chambers Wrkfrce

11. Global Talent and Evolving Office Spaces featuring Jesse Chambers

Jesse Chambers is the founder and CEO of wrkfrce. With over four years of experience in the remote work domain, Jesse has been instrumental in creating content and providing insights for remote workers and businesses embracing remote work models.

Jesse’s journey into the remote work sphere started with a clear vision of empowering individuals and businesses to thrive in remote work environments. 

As the founder of Workforce, a platform dedicated to remote work resources and insights, Jesse has curated a wealth of knowledge and expertise in navigating the challenges and opportunities of remote work.

His passion for remote work extends beyond mere advocacy; Jesse is a firm believer in measuring output over input, emphasizing the importance of results-oriented approaches for managing remote teams. 

Through his work, Jesse aims to dispel common fears and misconceptions surrounding remote work, advocating for a more flexible and productive work culture.

Jesse’s insights have been widely recognized, making him a sought-after speaker and thought leader in the remote work community. 

His forward-thinking approach and pragmatic strategies have helped numerous individuals and businesses adapt and thrive in the remote work landscape.

Key Takeaways. 

  1. Remote work is here to stay, with companies increasingly embracing flexible work models.
  2. The fear-based push for in-office work is driven by outdated management practices focused on input rather than output.
  3. Talent is the key differentiator, with companies offering remote flexibility attracting and retaining top talent.
  4. Remote work offers advantages like broader talent pools and increased productivity but requires intentional efforts to address social interaction challenges.
  5. The future of work is global, with companies realizing they can recruit the best talent regardless of location or language barriers.
  6. The evolution of remote work includes rethinking traditional office spaces to support collaboration and social connections.
  7. Embracing remote work unlocks opportunities for individuals and businesses to thrive in a more flexible, interconnected world.

Connect with Jesse

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessewrkfrce/ 

Website – https://wrkfrce.com/

Here is the full transcript:

Paul Urwin  0:00  

Welcome to remote business growth, your go to source for all things remote work and business growth. Join us as we delve deep into the strategies, insights and success stories that will help you thrive in the remote work landscape. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, a remote team leader, or simply curious about how to grow your business, this podcast is your gateway to unlocking your full potential. So get ready to embark on a journey of innovation and success. This is episode 11 of the remote Business Growth Podcast. I’m Paul Urwin. If you’re looking for a virtual assistant or remote talent to help you grow your business, then head on over to http://thereistalent.com/.

We have an awesome interview today, it’s with Jesse Chambers. Let’s get cracking. Jesse Chambers is an entrepreneur in the digital media space and accomplished executive with leadership experience at successful startups, as well as some of the largest most well respected global media brands. In early 2019. He left the San Francisco Bay Area with his wife and dog and working full time from a 27 foot Airstream trailer founded workforce. That’s WR K, fr C. E, rooted in the belief that when we design our careers around our lives, and not vice versa, we are more productive and more fulfilled workforce is a digital media company that gives remote workers and the businesses that employ them information, tools, and inspiration. Jesse grew to understand the far reaching impact of digital transformation on our lives, our culture, and ultimately, the way we work while helping to lead brands like TechCrunch and in gadget among others. And because of the travel demands of his various roles, Jessie found himself a de facto remote worker and digital nomad and loved it. By building Wrkfrce, Jessie and his team seek to question the inherited wisdom, that the only way to work is in an office from nine to five, and to help people and businesses realize their full potential through flexible and remote work. Jesse, welcome to the show.

Jesse Chambers  2:06  

It’s great to be here. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah,

Paul Urwin  2:08  

I’m really looking forward to talking about the wonderful topic of remote work, among other things. So Jesse, where are you connecting from today?

Jesse Chambers  2:16  

I am currently in Austin, Texas, and have lived here for about a year and a half. Before that I was a full time digital nomad before that. I basically live my adult life in San Francisco. So not all over the map, but I’ve covered a few miles in my day.

Paul Urwin  2:32  

Well tell us a little bit about your journey. And please, Jesse. Sure.

Jesse Chambers  2:36  

So my grip on the east coast, but pretty much the moment I graduated college, I headed west to San Francisco. This was in 2001. So this was the early days of the.com. Boom, I like to joke that as I was driving across the country, I heard the first.com bubble burst. And so when I first moved to San Francisco, you would meet people and they wouldn’t ask you, what do you do for work? They would literally say, “Do you have a job?” And so it was a different kind of thing different from San Francisco than what we think of today, but I had a really great experience in San Francisco and built my life and career there. And in 2019, I left the traditional corporate environment where I had been a monetization operations and strategy executive for some large companies, and founded my company workforce, which I’m still running today. Excellent.

Paul Urwin  3:26  

So big decision, they’re back in 2019, then how did you come to that decision?

Jesse Chambers  3:32  

It’s a funny thing, Paul. So I worked at a large company for over a decade, and we had been through a couple of mergers. There was another merger coming down the pike, I sort of tried to look into the future. And I wasn’t sure if I was number one going to have a job on the other side of that merger. And number two, if I was going to want the job that I had. And so I did an exercise that I find really valuable to do today or just anybody can do it. But what I did was I made a list of the things that were important to me in whatever role was next, regardless of job title, company or even industry. What are the things that really matter to me and what it is that I’m doing. And it sounds silly to say this, in hindsight, but only through doing that exercise. Did I realize that already in 2017 2018, I was a remote worker. That’s because back then it wasn’t a job feature that we negotiated. It had just happened organically. I was based in San Francisco, my company was based in New York. So I was spending one week per month in New York, at the home office. I had just through a quirk I had desks at two different company offices in San Francisco. And I was traveling a ton. And so when I was in San Francisco, if I needed to be in the office, I was in the office. If I needed to work from my home office, I was empowered and entrusted to do that. Essentially, it was treated like an adult. And so I knew that whatever it is that I wanted to do next, I didn’t want to give up that freedom and that flexibility. And so armed with that as sort of a starting point. I went and looked around to find communities or websites or places where people who wanted to work remotely could find more information about that. And I found nothing, really. And I was very frustrated for about 30 seconds. And then I said, Wait a minute, if this is something that you wish existed, maybe other people would, too. And so that was really the seed that has grown into the workforce over time. And so I ended up leaving that company. And by the way, it was option number two, I had a job, but I didn’t really want the job that I had. And so it took about a year to kick the tires on the concept of workforce. This was in, as I say, 2017 2018. Back then, in the US, we were at about 6 million people working remotely, most of the time. And I saw that sector growing to 15 to 20 million people within 10 years. And so I said, Well, this is a strong community going to grow. I would really love to be a part of it. I would really love to be sort of the identity site for people who work remotely or want to. And so I kicked it off. And right around the time we were going to launch the workforce to the world, a little thing called the pandemic happened. And we went from 6 million people working remotely, to 60 million people overnight. And so on the one hand, obviously, it was a really challenging and terrible time in a lot of ways. But for our business, it was a very fast paced, exciting time. And in fact, we had to sort of really reorient how we were looking at our audience, because no longer was our audience, a small group of people who were making a choice and trying to move in direction of remote and flexible work, but rather a whole bunch of people 10s of millions of people who were reactive, and were forced to work in this way. And we’re trying to say, how do I do this? How do I effectively lead a team? How do I advocate for myself in a remote environment? And so it was a fascinating and very abrupt shift, which we tried to work to meet to give our audience the best chance of success as we possibly could. And

Paul Urwin  7:00  

stuff? And how exactly do you help people in the Wrkfrce?

Jesse Chambers  7:04  

So we think of the Wrkfrce audiences, people who work remotely or want to and the businesses that employ them. And so we try to create content for that audience to enlighten them and power them, giving them the tools they need to succeed. We also have a job board. And so people can search for jobs, if they want to grow their career, we envision in the future creating sort of an ecosystem where people can get training and certifications that can make them more attractive to employers, whether they be flexible or remote. But really crucially, when we think about that audience, as I said, people who work remotely or want to and the businesses that employ them, what we’ve found since launch is that actually that second category, that businesses who employ them, and by that I mean managers and leaders of companies, is actually our largest audience that we see now. And I think the pandemic obviously has a lot to do with this. managers and leaders trying to be strategic, and learn ways of operating and leading teams and strategically leading companies that they didn’t get in business school. And so that’s really the biggest sector of our audience. And we just tried to create content to empower them to do that. Crucially, one of the things that we see, and this was really a case of the post pandemic wave of interest in remote work, everybody began talking about it, it was on everybody’s lips, because everybody was doing it. And we saw a lot of content coming out from all the publishers: Harvard Business Review, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, you name it, everybody was talking about remote work. My observation about those other publishers is that they, in general, speak more about remote work and about remote workers and remote companies. And so what we try to do in the workforce is really intentionally speak to our audience, speak to the people who are struggling with a manager who is not an effective leader of remote teams, or speak to the managers who are trying to lead their company in thoughtful ways in a remote or hybrid environment. And so because we are our audience, we are remote workers. So speaking to them, as opposed to speaking about them. I

Paul Urwin  9:11  

I think it’s a very significant difference, actually. Very interesting, Jesse. And obviously, you’ve got training and education content components, you’re able to talk a little bit about your revenue streams, not necessarily in terms of numbers, but just in terms of how your company works and how you generate revenue.

Jesse Chambers  9:29  

So I’ve been involved in the monetization of Internet content since 2006. And when I first got into that business, we were slinging banner ads, we had $30 CPMs on 728 by 90 banner ads on top of the website. These were the heady days of display advertising. And you may have heard of two companies called Facebook and Google who have come in and really disrupted that and commoditized the ad side of things. And so serving ads On a content website is really no longer a path to success with a joke that I like to make is that job posts are the only ads that people still like to click on on the internet. And so from conception, we’ve built the workforce as a media brand around a job platform. And so we create content that informs and inspires our audience. We also have a job board that allows them to take action and to search for and apply to jobs. And those job posts are, in general, a more lucrative revenue stream or lucrative source of revenue than just traditional display advertising or ad reads inside of a podcast. And so that’s always been the monetization engine, and the flywheel around which we built the workforce business strategy. There are also other things, so we have a solid affiliate business. So when we write something about the best standing desks or home office equipment, like that kind of thing, you can build a nice little business around affiliate revenue for those kinds of products and that kind of thing, too. But really, for us, it’s always been around the job board. Wonderful.

Paul Urwin  11:04  

Thank you for sharing that. Jesse. I’d like you to take us back to the start of the workforce. I’m absolutely fascinated, I know audiences as well as starting and growing businesses. That’s what a lot of us do. So take us back to the very first few days, or the first few months, it sounded like you’d had that preparation, you had the idea? And then you made the big decision you left corporate life behind. And what did those first few months look like? Did you know where you were going? And how this was going to turn out? Or what was it like back then? I’m just really fascinated by that.

Jesse Chambers  11:39  

That’s a good question for I’ve never been asked on a podcast before. But looking back, I think that the vision of what the workforce is today was very much with a couple key exceptions realized in those early days, we knew that there was a gap in the marketplace. Our tagline is designed around your career, not vice versa. And I think that, to me, the promise of flexible work is the ability to really have more agency over the lives we live, and to not have it be dominated by career. And just to take a quick detour. Something has always stuck with me. When I first began the founding journey of the workforce, we left San Francisco, my wife and I moved into an Airstream trailer. I mean, it’s cool. And it’s a remote work digital nomad thing to do. But it was really because it was a lower cost of living for us than living in San Francisco. And one of our first stops was when we saw some friends in Louisville, Kentucky. And we were visiting these friends and they had two little boys, and their little boy friends came over. And my friends told me that it was sort of sad that their friends were moving to Chicago. And they were moving to Chicago in the middle of the school year, because their dad had just got a new Senior Vice President and the senior vice president was based in Chicago. And he said, all my direct reports need to be in Chicago with me. And so these people literally had to uproot their lives and their kids and take them out of school and miss their friends, because the SVP is in Chicago and says, all my team needs to be with me just makes the flat mandate. And that just struck me as a real shame and really backwards and not how it should be having been around the block a little bit in corporate America, understanding that that SVP was probably going to be at that company for three or four years, and then he was probably going to go somewhere else. And what were these people going to do? So for me, as I say, like the promise is about helping people design their careers around their lives, not vice versa. And I think that that, to me is one of the positives and the lasting legacies of the pandemic in this giant experiment that we all were forced to engage in with remote work is that people’s eyes have been open to the fact that number one, there is no loss of productivity, that people can actually be more productive when they’re working remotely or flexibly. And number two, that you don’t have to be in office from 9am to 5pm every day to be effective at your job and to have success and that there are gray areas. One of the things I always like to say is the image of the remote worker with a laptop on a beach in Thailand, I think does us the greatest disservice. That’s not how most people work remotely. And so people who are working remotely, who have more time to drop their kids off at school or be a caregiver to an aging parent. Those kinds of things are really the things that are most important in life. Certainly career and work is important. And that’s how we pay the bills and make our lives happen. But it is possible to find a greater balance than what we might have been led to believe up until a few years ago.

Paul Urwin  14:34  

And I like that you say what we’ve been led to believe. I think that phrase is absolutely spot on. Because I think everyone was convinced that there was this particular way to work and that we were all going to just work in that way forever. And then this chain of events happened where I mean first of all remote work, of course was around before the pandemic but then just that terrible situation that really caught up altered remote work into everyone’s vision, I think

Jesse Chambers  15:03  

It was the way that we worked because it worked. In the 80s, we couldn’t have done what we did in the pandemic. It’s really interesting to think about the timing of things and the rise of the Internet and smartphones and everything living in the cloud. The fact that in the late aughts and early 2010s, you had all these CTOs who were so focused on putting everything into the cloud. And I think I was in a few meetings where there were some executives who were rolling their eyes at why we have to deal with the cloud and all this kind of stuff. If that hadn’t happened, if we hadn’t had a real cloud based architecture around all of the things that we do with business, if we hadn’t had solutions, like Skype, and zoom, and Google meet all of those things, having proliferated in the years leading up to the pandemic, things would have gotten much uglier than they did. Again, I don’t want to minimize the loss of life and the disruption. And the reality that not everybody was able to work remotely. But things could have been a lot worse, if a lot of the technology infrastructure and underpinnings that we can take sort of for granted right now, those things were not in place 10 years prior. And so in the 90s, in the early aughts, in the 1980s, you did have to go to an office because you needed the resources in the office, you needed the infrastructure and the communication. But again, I forget what phrase I used a minute ago, but I think of it as inherited wisdom, the inherited wisdom that the nine to five office space thing, that’s how we work. The reality is that the nine to five office based model is a vestige of the Industrial Revolution. It’s Henry Ford, and the factory. And that’s just not how we need to work these days.

Paul Urwin  16:37  

Oh, I couldn’t agree with you more Jesse. Brilliant stuff. All right. Well, let’s take a slight detour, though. It’s all related, of course. And let’s go back to the trailer, because for those of you who’d like to see what we’re talking about right now, Jesse has a brilliant video on his LinkedIn profile. So you might want to head on over there and watch the video. But tell us a little bit about your trailer and living and working from there, please, Jesse.

Jesse Chambers  17:02  

So as I say, like, lived in San Francisco for a long time and really enjoyed that my wife actually owned a vintage clothing store in San Francisco, she owned a brick and mortar store. And so around the time that I was getting ready to found a workforce, she was winding down and selling that business. And so we had no real location based needs. And at the same time, we were looking at the investment that I wanted to make in the workforce. And our overhead, our housing costs, our cost of living in San Francisco, which I don’t think it’s a secret, the cost of living in San Francisco in the Bay Area is quite high. And so we were saying, Well, what are the alternatives? Do we move to another city? What do we think about here, and my wife, in part because of her love of all things. Vintage had always been really enamored with Airstream trailers and RVs. And we were not outdoorsy camping people. But we ran the numbers. And we said, actually, this is really interesting. And this could be a lower overhead, lower cost of living. It would allow me as the founder of a remote work company to really throw myself in the deep end of being a digital nomad and trying to work in that environment. And it’s also sort of a once in a lifetime opportunity to see North America to see the United States in a way that we never would have been able to otherwise. So we sold all of our furniture, we got a little five by five storage unit and our yearbooks, and her wedding dress. And my record collection was sort of all the things that we kept. And we moved into an Airstream trailer, a 23 foot Airstream trailer, we bought a pickup truck to tow it around. And in the course of three and a half years, we visited 39 of the lower 48 states, we towed the trailer for about 34,000 miles, I put 73,000 miles on that truck in three years. And we really got to see the country and also really determined that it is possible to work in a truly location independent way. One of the funny things people always ask is, Well, how did you stay connected? Our biggest challenge during that time was that we were getting our internet via cell signal. So we had a Wi Fi system, but it ran on a SIM card from AT and T or T Mobile or Verizon. And we were always chasing bars chasing How strong is our sell signal. When we would get to a place we would see how many bars we have. What is our download speed? Can we actually stay here? And there were several times where we arrived in locations that were beautiful that we would love to have stayed in in the middle of nowhere or sometimes in the city and realized that we had three megabytes of download speed and we weren’t gonna be able to stay there. So that was a challenge and a reality. The ironic thing is that we sold the airstream a little over a year ago or two years ago, a year and a half ago. And within about two or three months of the US selling the airstream they came out with Starlink for RVs. So that would have totally removed that whole thing and we would have had high speed internet speeds wherever we were. So I should have taken my first little bit at Starlink, when that was announced, but it’s good for people who want to do that kind of thing in the future, it’s entirely possible, I was able to launch my business that way. So I really encourage people to give it a try if they’re interested, amazing

Paul Urwin  20:11  

experience, what are the biggest lessons that you learned from that? Where

Jesse Chambers  20:16  

I mean, as I said, the ability to truly be able to work from anywhere, if you can get connected to the internet, you can do a lot from wherever you might be. I mean, I was the founder of a company that was going through lunch, I was working 26 hours a day it felt like, and we were able to do that from wherever we were. So that’s sort of the business side is that it really is possible to get a whole lot of work done wherever somebody might be, as long as they have access to internet and data, the sort of outside of business larger lesson, it was a fascinating experience. For us, it’s one thing to go to a city or a town or a country and stay there for a week or a long weekend and experience a little bit of it. Our essential travel routine was that we would go to a place and stay there for at least a week or two. And so we were able to live in all kinds of places in the cities across the US Sedona, Arizona, Savannah, Georgia, different cities in New Mexico and different places in the middle of nowhere, and really live there, go to the grocery store, find out where the post offices and you get a deeper appreciation and respect for an understanding of people in places when you’re able to spend a significant amount of time in those places. And so that was truly a once in a lifetime experience that wouldn’t trade it for anything, a fascinating deepening of my appreciation for North America, the United States. But I would say it’s larger than that, because that was just happened to be where we traveled a lot of the time, but really deepened my appreciation for that

Paul Urwin  21:52  

incredible experience. I’d like to go back to focus on your mission. So your mission is to serve remote workers in the companies who employ them as your visual,

Jesse Chambers  22:03  

Yeah, we create content for people who work remotely or want to and the businesses that employ them. You gotta like 95% of the way there, Paul, you’re hired with that

Paul Urwin  22:12  

good stuff. So one topic that I’d really like to address is particularly focused on those companies. So is it still the case that there’s a big degree of fear out there? So this fear that to put it bluntly, someone who’s working remotely is not really doing much? Or is doing something some of the time, but because the manager of the company doesn’t have the physical oversight in an office, or physical location, what happens if someone takes a two hour three hour lunch break? Or a four hour lunch break? And what if everything can’t be measured? In terms of results? Or maybe it can be so I’m sure this is a topic that you’ve thought about talking about. What’s your view on that Jesse place,

Jesse Chambers  22:59  

I like to think of it as we’re now four plus years removed from the start of this grand experiment with remote work. And so the phase that I think we’re in is the pendulum is swinging or has swung back towards the office or is trying to, I think, in a lot of ways, the cat is out of the bag in terms of remote work. And I don’t think we’re ever going back to a majority of companies working a majority of the time in co-located spaces from 9am to 5pm, five days a week, I think that that’s gone. I do think that, yes, there’s a lot of fear on the part of managers and leaders, because they don’t necessarily know what they can’t see. And frankly, some of them are bad at measuring it. And so when we think about this, when I talk about this, I think it’s really important to think in terms of measuring output instead of input. And what I mean by that is when you’re measuring output you’re measuring, how are my employees performing against the objectives and the measurables that I’ve given them as a leader? When you’re thinking about input, you’re in an office and you’re thinking, do I see Jessie sitting at his desk? And does he look busy? And I think the sad reality is that many leaders and managers are skewing back towards that input, because it makes them feel more comfortable, because it’s what they’re used to, because it’s what they’ve spent their whole career managing. And they as managers and leaders feel better that if they need to talk to Jesse, they can look across their window or across the floor and see me and come ask me the question that they want to ask me. And that’s nice for managers and leaders. And that’s who you see, making the push back to an office. What you see from employees is saying, Why, what’s the point? And the companies that you read about in the news, you hear about Google doing this or turning office efforts to Amazon. It’s very interesting that those are the companies that you hear about, and those are the companies who are struggling with enforcing it. And those are some of the most prestigious companies in the world, and they’re having trouble forcing their prestigious employees. To adhere to these mandates that they’re making, I think about it as a level lower than that of the companies that aren’t making the news, what are they doing. And to me, I always come back to talent. And talent wins time and time again, if you have company A and company B, and they’re competing in the same category in the same industry, and Company A is offering flexible, remote terms to their employee, and they’re trying to recruit the best team that they can, and they’re saying, hey, come to an office one day a week, or we’re mostly remote, but we get together as a team quarterly, or you have Company B, and they’re saying, We’re five days a week in office, you need to come to work in Atlanta, Georgia, and live here with your family. Over time, company A is going to out recruit Company B and going to have better talent, better performance, and overtime Company A is going to win. And so yes, we are in this, I think you use the word fear, I think it is absolutely fear based. We are in a fear based attempt to force employees to return to office. But I think the results over time over the next decade are going to show that companies who have really embraced a flexible model, and are working well to iterate and make that work for their business and their category. Those are going to be the companies that are most successful long term, you’re also going to start to see in another two or three years, the companies who were founded during the pandemic, who 80 plus percent at five plus percent of which are fully remote, natively, fully remote, you’re going to start to see those companies and those businesses start to mature, those companies start to go public, and it’s going to be a new normal.

Paul Urwin  26:42  

I hadn’t thought of that. I like the idea for those native remote companies coming through. I

Jesse Chambers  26:48  

I mean, you’re already starting to see them. Git lab is the first company they went public with a couple years ago. They’re the first natively remote company to go public. And they’ve done very well, they spiked, and it’s a company so they have ups and downs. But it’s very interesting to see one of those really well known, natively remote companies be the first to go public. And the numbers are there that the vast majority of companies that have been founded since the year 2020, are natively remote. And so as those businesses mature, and those companies grow, you’re gonna see a new normal,

Paul Urwin  27:21  

fascinating conversation, I think I got time, maybe just for one last question. I just love hearing your opinion on these things, Jesse. So let’s focus now on the remote workers or those who work remotely. And I think lots of people are really keen on the idea of remote work, whether they are working in that way right now, whether they’re in a physical location, and they want to switch to remote work, but there are and I must say this, there are some disadvantages of working remotely. I think that’s fairly well accepted. So it might be the sort of lack of social interaction factor or it might be just that not being able to get out and about enough, how do you see that situation? It’s not 100%. One way traffic is not an absolute perfect situation. And what’s been your own experience with that? And then maybe to tag onto the end of that, I know, there’s quite a few questions rolled into one. But what can companies do to make that work as well?

Jesse Chambers  28:19  

I think there’s never a one size fits all thing. I think a lot of it has to do with who the professional is and at what stage they’re at in their career. Somebody like me, I’m in my 40s I already have a good sense of myself professionally, but somebody who’s just coming into the workforce who’s in their 20s might really benefit from spending more time in I won’t say an office environment, but in like a working environment, and working with other people. The thing that I see in my own life that is most interesting. And we have sort of a joke, that workforce, my company, the word workforce, but the domain in our business name is spelled without O’s. It’s the startup thing of having a spelling. That’s not all the vowels, but we joke that we don’t have the two O’s because offices are optional. Get it? Wink, wink. Very good, funny joke, or maybe debatably. Funny, but it’s a joke. And I like to say that it’s optional. Like I’m not against offices, I find a lot of benefits personally, professionally, when I’m working in a situation with other people. And I think that the co-working space we work at has taken a hit. But there’s a lot of co working environments, that you may be co working or sharing an office space with people who just work for different companies, and that can be serendipitous, and can be inspiring and can help people build social networks can help people learn positive work habits. So that’s the thing too, and I don’t think that the office needs to go away. I think that it needs to evolve. So that’s one thing. I’ll use my wife as an example. She has a fully remote job and really loves it. The community that she has built up in her life as we’ve moved to Austin is I’m not one around her colleagues at business, but colleagues or friends around her interests. So she has the golf book, she loves golfing. And so she’s part of a women’s golf community. It’s called hot girls golf in Austin, if people want to sign up. And I think it’s fascinating, I think it’s a great way for her to meet people who she shares an interest with. But it’s not the people who you might have had in the past 1015 years ago, gone out to happy hour after work. And so I think, arguably, it’s better because you share something more in common with these people than the same person writes her paycheck. The negative thing is, I think you have to be more intentional about it. So you have to say, it’s not going to be good for me to just stay in my home office. And the only time I get outside is when I have to walk the dog or go to the store or whatever that is. And so people do have to be intentional about that. I think once people get over the hump, and say, I want to build my network, I want to broaden my social horizon, I need to get out of the house. And I see all these clubs and affinity groups popping up. And it’s a really exciting time, I think, for those kinds of groups and those kinds of people to broaden their horizons and to make friends with people who they might not have otherwise, because they might have been stuck in an office and then felt like they had to go to happy hour with the boss after work. And so I think in a lot of ways, that’s really exciting.

Paul Urwin  31:20  

Brilliant, that’s just been amazing talking to you, Jesse, I think I’d love your take on things, I think I get the feeling that just from your point of view, you’re in absolutely the right place, doing what you do, and serving all these other people. And it just seems to fit you perfectly. And I’m sure that’s one of the reasons why you’re so good at it.

Jesse Chambers  31:39  

It’s natural. Absolutely. 

Paul Urwin  31:40  

Congratulationson setting up your company, it’s obviously doing really, really well. And I wish you every success for the future with it. I love the fact that you’re supporting and helping this massive community of people who are working remotely. So big applause really for just doing something so positive. I think there’s lots of people out there doing really positive things, and you’re one of them. So thanks very much. And thanks very much for agreeing to come on the show and talk to me and share some of that advice and some of your vast knowledge with our audience. So it’s really very much appreciated. I’ll leave you with the last word now. So anything else you want to add? And of course, share that URL again, just so everyone’s got it clear. And anything else you want to share? Thanks, Jesse.

Jesse Chambers  32:23  

My pleasure, Paul, I appreciate all the kind words. And actually, I’ll give a parting shot. But maybe I could have squeezed this into one of my answers. Before I give my URL on how to contact me. What I want to say in talking about the evolution of remote and how we are I think the pendulum is swinging back. One of the things that I see happening in the next five to 10 years, which relates to the business that you’re involved in, and your location in South America, right now companies in the US, I think are realizing that they don’t have to recruit from a 50 mile radius from their office anymore, this sort of commuting distance. They’re saying, Okay, well, we can expand our talent pool beyond this 50 mile radius, maybe it’s the same state or the same time zone. Or maybe it’s people in the US. And so they’re realizing that they can acquire the best talent, regardless of the location. And so when I get back to that talent it always wins things. That’s a big realization that I think many of the smarter leaders out there are having today. I think that phase two of that is if these leaders accept the fact that they can identify the best talent, regardless of location in the US in other countries, lightbulbs are going to start to go off in a few years and say, Wait a minute, if I want to have the best talent, and they’re working remotely already, why do they need to be in my country? Why do they even need to speak my language? If we’re talking about output, not input, if you’re writing code, that’s its own language that doesn’t have a language barrier. So it doesn’t matter what language the individual speaks natively, if they’re able to produce an output that is of a good quality, the company is going to want to hire those people. So I think that phase two of this, that the next wave of this is going to be a real globalization of talent, and really trying to find the best talent for the job or for the task, regardless of where that person is in the world. And so again, once that business leaders in any country really start to get their head around, we need to bring in the best talent for this, regardless of where they are, we’re going to see an expansion of Talent Search and job search that is truly global. And I’m really excited about that. Not just from where I live, but from efficiency and access to capital, access to talent, access to opportunity, is a really exciting thing for me. So that’s where I see it going. I know we didn’t talk about your business, but what literally, you’ve shared with me about it. I really think you’re ideally positioned. And I’m really excited for the people all over the world and in Colombia, and South America and Africa, in these other places where it has been harder to maybe come by opportunity To see that really blossoming for them in the next decade, sorry, I had to get that one in there because I’m excited about what you’re doing too. So my name is Jesse Chambers, people can find me on LinkedIn. That’s probably the best way to get in touch with me is to follow me on LinkedIn. I think that my LinkedIn URL is linkedin.com/jessie workforce. JSs WORKForce. workforce.com is the name of the website, again, workforce with no O’s because offices are optional. So that’s WR kfrce.com would love for people to check it out, see some articles on there and let me know what they think if they think the articles are great, and we’re producing great content that’s really useful for you. I would love to hear that. If you have a better idea. If you’d like to read a different or better article. You can also tell me that I love to hear it. And really appreciate your time, Paul, and what you’re doing. It’s really exciting and I’m glad to be a part of it.

Paul Urwin  35:52  

Thanks again, Jesse. All the very best. Just a big thank you to Jesse for sharing his wisdom in this podcast episode. Really great to talk to him and just a wonderful story really, just a wonderful story of someone just with a clear belief and incredible passion for what he does. So yeah, big thank you to Jesse Chambers. Don’t forget that if you would like to hire remote talent to grow and scale your business, then head on over to http://thereistalent.com/. Thanks very much for tuning in. All the very best, and until next time, bye bye

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